Selling a Property - Land

[boytwice]

I just wondering, what people usually do when they buy a property from a tax sales? do they resale it for profit? or use it(if land) to build a house, or other purpose?
If i am looking to sell a properties, which way should be better? should i put it on forums? or should i contact a real estate agent?
Please advise, thanks
Howard

[Pfm1011]

Its a mix of keep and flip.  I have flipped several but have two I have kept .

I think with most its a flipping game as alot of the tax sale property isnt really worth keeping

In regards to selling , I would post it in the forums here under properties for sale http://taxsaleproperty.org/forum/index.php?board=9.0

Also craigslist and Kijiji first and see what happens.  (get ready for a pile of agents trying to get the listing)

If it is vacant land or commercial , you can post it as a have on iciworld.ca  (basically its the snakepit) but get ready for 100 agents claiming to "have a cash buyer" just so they can get the listing

If it doesnt sell then get an agent.

If you are busy just get an agent and let them deal with the hassle.

Although I generally consider them to be a subhuman species who eat their young,    When you are a seller their greed does work for your benefit . 

Additionally an agent might help you understand what the land is worth , Many sellers are way too high in their asking initially.  Of course and agent will agree with whatever silly price you ask until they get the listing and then they will drive you down by making up market drop excuses (in their defense , agents would starve if they told everyone what their house is really worth, they would get no listings)

If you need area sales just ask on here and you will get a list

Do everyone a favour, when you post it, If it doesnt have a address  include the lot/ concession , assessment roll or best of all the LT pin if you know it.. Nothing worse then sellers who dont give all the details

"lovely acreage near peterborough, call for details"   real helpful isnt it

[twinn1]

Other options are:

List the property using http://myrealty.ca/index.asp, your property is listed with them on MLS for 0.5% commission plus whatever you pay the other realtor (typically 2.5%) for a total of 3%, you have to do all of the paperwork yourself, arrange viewings, etc...
I have never used them but it seems alright, although with the slow market in cottage country you might be able to find a realtor willing to do all of the work for a total of 3.5-4%, you have to decide if its worth to you.
In the US there are a lot of companies offering flat fee MLS service, this is as close as to that that I could find.


http://www.cottageontario.com/alllistings.html is another free cottage/land listing service, it seems to focus on northern ontario properties but its a free service so its worth listing on there besides Kijji/craiglist.


Third option would be to find the local newspapers and take an ad in each one, that would be the best way as it would get the locals interested in the property, in small towns, word spreads fast.


PMF1011 is correct about craiglist/kijji, when I listed my condo on there I had at least 1 agent call a day, sometimes as many as 5 all promising buyers, cash buyers etc... funny thing is that when I eventually did list on MLS, none of the cash buyers that were promised by those realtors materlized.

Another good option, and I have seen this one used by a few savy sellers is to put small 10 by 10 (or whatever the maxmimum size alloted by the muncipalty) bunky on the property, that way when you list your property, it not just land, rather its land with a "rustic cabin" or a "hunt camp" etc.. 
A lot of buyers, espically private buyers are unfamilar with the process of building a cottage and the requirements of numerous permits, surveys, septic survey etc...  In your case, if you are selling that could be to your advantage. And for the cost of a bunky, weither you build it yourself or get it built, it adds value to your property.

[boytwice]

Thanks, and the information are really helpful.
Also, i just wondering generally how long does it take for the process of selling (Time range, cause i heard from a friend that he try to resale a land and it takes up to 1 yr for the sale take palce)? let say if i sale it thru a agent, will it be faster?
Does the value depend on "Government Assessed Value"?

[Pfm1011]

The market value is just that, assessment has no bearing on sale price.   As per time, Land does take longer but I have had stuff sell in weeks.

Vacant land is substantially harder to sell but if priced right , it will move fast  but remember any offer is an offer and negotiate as best you can to make it work as another offer may not come along for months.
 
I have seen so many people turn down reasonable offers or respond with insulting counters then sit for years waiting for another offer. 

If you have a piece you want to sell but not sure what its worth, toss it up here and get some opinions. Thats what we are here for.

[twinn1]

assessment means nothing, even less in cottage country, in the past, on million dollar cottage would bump up the assessed value of all the surrounding properties due to MPAC silly assessement process.

Market value is whatever your buyer is willing to pay, what ever your offer comes in at is what the property is worth.  So many people have a misconception about the market values of property, if you list at 100K and get an offer of 75K, then its worth 75K, especially if you get multiple offers within the same range.

Land is really hard to price, since there are many variables, if your selling a lot is it on a municipal road? do you have a survey?, septic certificate?, a driveway?, building approval from the township? is it wooded? hardwood or softwood? is it an organized or unorganized township etc... the list goes on....

The more extra's it has the easier it will be to sell, a cabin will make it habitable, even if its only on weekends, building plans and approval will appeal to those that want to build.   

[boytwice]

the property that i have is in South Stormont, which is formerly part of Cornwall, around one block away from 401 Exit, on a Paved Road(Island Rd). I don't have any survey nor any information about septic system yet, but i do know that it is zoned Agr10, 2.69 Acres, Frontage is 834 and Depth is rought 100-140, since it is irregular, there is a steam at the end of the land. There is not much trees on the land (I mean it, like there is only 5-10 trees, almost equal to None to me)

Information as follow, thanks for advise

Property Information
 Jur Number:      001
 Roll Number:      01681010.0000
 Property Description
 :     CON 6 PT LOT 5 PT LOT 6
 .:     RP52R245 PART 14 RP52R2184
 .:     PARTS 2,3,4
 LOT SIZE KEY:     A
 LOT SIZE:      2.69
 Zone:     AGR10
 FRONTAGE: :     834.3600
   

Assessment (Tax Year 2009)    Source   Class   Taxable   
Annualized Assessment            Original    RT    20,500
Current Market Value            Original    RT    21,625
        
Assessment (Tax Year 2008)  Source   Class   Taxable   
Annualized Assessment            Original    RT    20,500
Current Market Value            Original    RT    20,500

[Pfm1011]

Lt PIN 601330286    google earth  45? 6'42.33"N   74?46'8.49"W

South stormont tax sale Firstly: Part of the East Half of Lot 6, Concession 6, designated as Parts 3
and 4 on Reference Plan 52R-2184; Secondly: Part of Lot 5, Concession 6,designated as Part 2 on Reference Plan 52R-2184 and Part 14 on Reference Plan 52R-245; Geographic Township of Cornwall, now Township of South
Stormont, County of Stormont.Roll No. 04-06-001-016-81010
Minimum Tender Amount: $ 6,820.38



How much did you win this for?

[boytwice]

7500

[Pfm1011]

The MLS in the area has building lots from 15 to 27000, . With the size of yours its worth about 20K

Area sales in the last year closest are 17506 island rd which was .6 acre for 20K and pin 601330404 ( across street ) which is also around .6 acre sold for 19K . One down the street at 7 acres sold for 49 but is is much squarer and a much nicer..so based and the local sales you are back around 20K value

The land is worth the most to the man west of you which is 17660 island road who's land is only 1500 M2 . He would be a fool not to pay you 20 to 25 K to increase  his land almost 8 fold

The property to the east owns 150 acres  across the rd so they may anti up 20 K 

Do not approach the people at 17667  as it is someone in their family who just lost the piece in the tax sale.

The people at 17679 may be willing to anti up the 22 k

I would directly approach the man at 17660 and tell him you will be listing it in a few weeks at 25K , offer it to him at 22K .  That would be a great deal for everyone , I wouldn't accept under 20K , maybe 17500  but its up to you .

Alternately you can hit all three in the same day and see who grabs it first.

If he balks..(he is a fool as his land value will increase  by at least 2  times what he pays you )Then hit the people to the east  and if no bite hand it to an agent and list for 23 to 25 . The neighbours will buy it as they would be fools not too, they may just want to bluff for a bit .

That my bet,you should make 10 to 15 k for a few days work.. double to triple your money..

Also note , every a**hole will go.."I know what you paid " and try to lowball you..theres a good chance they bid against you and lost, fair and square . dont fall for it

Also dont be greedy and try for 30 or 40,,you will just look stupid and the locals will simply lowball you so badly that you will be lucky to get your 7.5 back..nobody likes greedy idiots

Other opinions of what its worth and how to play it???

[boytwice]

Thanks for all the information, and they are so helpful

my conclusion is i will try and see what the neighbourhood offer, or i will hand it to agent as 25k, eventually 22k sounds a good deal to me already. I admit that i am a greedy guy but i don't want to push somthing that is immpossible

at the mean time, (so that i can learn more how to play it) i wondering, is there a standard method to get the pin and roll number, for search, also is there any program to do the search, i heard of something called teranet (not sure if i spell it wrong), cause as i see you can get the PIN right away, i think you might know alot about it.

Secondly, should i just go directly to the neighbourhood to ask if anyone interested or do i just leave a letter there? it seems abit weird to me, if someone just come to my house and tell me that he lives beside my house and willing to sell it to me. offcourse i will still try that, but i think handing it to a agent sounds like a better method to me, (off course i know that there will be commissions and lawyer fees, but since i am so new to this, and i don't even have a clue about how the process of selling land without a agent(private sale)) btw, what is roughly the cost of lawyers and commissions?

Thirdly, i am wondering, does a lot with trees worth more? or a site that is ready to build? cause i heard people talking about selling the woods in the lot, and i am willing to learn more about that too.

Finally, thanks for PFM and the others for all the great infomations. If there is anything that i can help, Please let me know.

Howard

[Pfm1011]

teranet cost 3 k a year..not for hobbiests

you have to check is the land is buildable as it could be flood plain. if its unbuildable it is only worth money to the neighbour

[twinn1]

you have to check is the land is buildable as it could be flood plain. if its unbuildable it is only worth money to the neighbour

Thats what I was thinking, I was going to say that its worth approx $20K from your description before pmf1011 chimed in.

One thing to keep in mind is that most vacant country lots outside large metropolitian areas hold most of their value to adjoining land owners, if the neighours do not buy it then its really not going to be worth that much to someone else.  Suprising that the neighbours did not bid at the tax sale since you only won it 1K above minimum bid.  If its flood plain its not worth anything.

Regarding timber land, thats just another niche market in terms of property.  It would hold some value if it was cut down, but not as much as most people think, there are costs involved, getting the wood survyed, getting it cut down, depends on the season and market for wood at the time, in many cases the logging would cover the cost of the land itself or at least a portion.

Some people want a private campsite, others want acerage, others want a building site for their cottage, others want a lot to build their country retreat, some want a hobby farm or agriculture land...the list goes on.

When selling land its all about finding the best clientele to market the land too. In your case its the adjoining land owners.