Does anyone want to share costs of parcel searches?

[g2020]

I see a parcel of land in Wasaga that sold for $971,000 below assessed value.  Wow!  With bargains like that to be had, who wouldn't want to get involved with Tax Sales?

This is another good example. I tendered that parcel after a lot of research because it is close to our summer home on Georgian Bay, and I have done a lot of development work in Wasaga Beach. That parcel of land can never be developed due to environmental protection zoning on most of it, and I can say with absolute certainty that it did not sell for more than it would have sold for on MLS -  plus the purchaser had to pay HST which would not apply to a personal use parcel of land sold on MLS. Most newbies do not understand that municipalities have started adding HST to everything which in most cases would not apply to a similar purchase through MLS. Just another cost to factor in.

[Frank]

  Most newbies do not understand that municipalities have started adding HST to everything which in most cases would not apply to a similar purchase through MLS. Just another cost to factor in.

The fact of the matter is, that even with existing residential properties...which would normally be exempt from HST, the Municipalities have no way of being able to swear that the property was not used for some commercial purpose which would make it HSTable.  While the Municipality never actually takes possession of any of the properties being sold, unless there are no bids and they excercise their right to take possession at a later date, it is Revenue Canada's position that the act of forclosure or distress sale does constitute seizure and therefore the Municipality does (even for an instant while it process the tax deed) own the property and must be the one to vouch for the property being exempt from HST. 

13% suddenly becomes a huge amount that wouldn't (as Gord says) be applicable in most MLS transactions.  When mixed in with all the other possibly tragic things that can come with these properties...ureaformeldahyde, asbestos, sinking foundations, existing and owners to dispose of, etc. etc. why are people bidding so high on tax sale properties...wake up people....why are these properties on the block in the first place. 

Hey, I've got a very good used car for sale, and I'll let you have for the price of a new one, I won't let you take it for a test drive, or have a mechanic look at it before giving you the ownership...any takers?   Oh and if you are interested pm me (that means send me a private message), and I can probably find some swamp land in Florida that you would be interested in. 

[Dave2]

Hey, I've got a very good used car for sale, and I'll let you have for the price of a new one, I won't let you take it for a test drive, or have a mechanic look at it before giving you the ownership...any takers?   Oh and if you are interested pm me (that means send me a private message), and I can probably find some swamp land in Florida that you would be interested in.  

  Thats a relief.

And here I thought it was the training ground for your pet gator (Rocco).  (Newbies you have to read old posts to understand.) What really worried me was I thought my significant other was getting ready for my next screwup and was working with you to feed me to the crocs particularly with Rocco's new training program where he climbs a tree.  (see photo. You have to have some spies for self preservation in this business, particularly with significant others).

Or was  it for the next summer party so the ladies will have to leave the water?

[g2020]

Looking at the Kincardine results, and cancellation of the good one, I suspect that there are at least 24 people who wish they had been sharing their costs with someone. And you gator baiters stay away from Florida - they are a protected species here. However, we have a nice hot tub beside the pool if Rocco wants to visit. 🐊

[g2020]

Port Hope will involve more than just a title search before you submit a tender. I am not a bidder but I notice a lot of buzz on the private part of this forum about environmental issues on the Port Hope 75 acre property. I think it would be helpful to others if any such information is shared. I recall the 1966 Nuclear Genocide issue with Eldorado (Government of Canada) radio active waste placement under roads, homes, and businesses in Port Hope and surrounding communities. I recall that radioactive water was used to keep dust down on rural roads in the Port Hope area, and that after the RCMP investigation, many roads that would normally be gravel were paved for free. Dave2 appears familiar with that area and perhaps he will be kind enough to help others start their due diligence process with some starting points on the internet - we used to have a chap PFM1011 who was very helpful with this type of thing, but he seems to have flown off to greener pastures. 🌷

[NDR]

Here's a link that's an educational read:

http://thewalrus.ca/nuclear-reaction/

I typically avoid 'government conspiracy' stories but there's so much documentation on the challenges of Port Hope I think this transcends that.

Though I suspect this would be more relevant to the house within the boundaries of Port Hope.  Though the 75 acre parcel seems to have it's own unique environmental issues.

Sensitive to people who may call Port Hope home, it is a beautiful area and I encourage all to support the local establishments if you happen to drive through.

[g2020]

Well said NDR. As you read through the material that NDR has referenced you will notice the disclosure protocol of realtors with respect to contamination in the Port Hope area. I agree that it is a beautiful area, but the facts are the facts, and need to be addressed before you tender. Not understanding local concerns can be just as risky as submitting a "naked" tender, as Dave2 calls the sight unseen, just mail it in and prey, strategy. If we all let each other know what we find, without being overly negative or alarmist, we all win by upgrading the quality of our tenders. 🐙

[Frank]

The Port Hope scrap yard is definitely one that is worth watching.  I believe that Dave will take my advice and go big on this one.  There's money in all that scrap metal.  And if speculation is right there could be an actual uranium mine on that site...take your drive-by at nite to see if the maple sap coming from the trees glows, just think of the possibilities. 

[NDR]

Not specifically talking about Port Hope, but generally about any property with a large 'collection' of equipment:

Well, one could do a quick search on the Net, see the current value of a ton of scrap metal, and think as they survey an assortment of old cars, construction and farm equipment -- and perhaps an old railcar, just for good measure -- "There must be at least 60 tons or so, which would be at least $18k, so this is actually potential upside." and then proceed to close the deal.

But then, once you're the proud owner of all that you survey, you start to realize upon closer inspection that it won't be as easy as pulling these things onto a flatbed.  And some items are of such size that they'll have to be taken out in pieces, likely when load restrictions on the local roads have passed.  At around this point a helpful local might drop by, and advise that if the equipment isn't 'dry' -- ie gas, oil, hydraulic fluid, coolant, even flooded batteries -- then there is an environmental concern and you'll need to enlist the aid of a licensed salvage professional, registered with the MoE and carrying the proper insurance.  And you know, based on the helpful local's disposition, that they'll likely stop by to make sure you remembered their advice when the work starts.

So as the work begins and the barrels are filling up and the torches are cutting (and burning their not inexpensive fuel), you realize that it's not just the vehicles getting cut to pieces.

Just like, if there's an old abandoned building on the property standing in the way of your plans, getting rid of it may not be as easy as walking into the local fire hall and saying 'hey, I've got a great way for you guys to get some practice!'

But that, as Hammy's friend would say, is another story.

[Dave2]

So Dave2 wants to bet - NetPred gets premium Irish beer, and I get Timbits - is that fair! Oh well, here goes.

4. I will sharpen the question and throw it open to the board for Netpeds usual winning.  Why do I stay close to home?  Interesting I don't think I have ever seen the answer to that one on this board, or by Tri Target or OTS.

G2020:

As I read this from my Dining room window the road is closed by the police and all sorts of heavy equipment is trying to clear a drain to prevent it being washed out.  More on the relevance of that later.

This discussion has morphed into something much different so I will deal with first things first.  

The answer to my question is "selling" not buying.  As one stockbroker once said any idiot can buy if you bid enough and the same is true for tax sales. The key is selling and for what price compared to what you paid for it and associated expenses.

[NDR]

This discussion has morphed into something much different so I will deal with first things first. 

I worried as I hit 'Post' on my last note that someone might rap my knuckles, or suggest that I was off on a small-engines-esqe tangent (though that discussion was educational as well).  But I think we've arrived back at the original theme, albeit in a circuitous manner -- that being the larger costs beyond the initial search, and the value of knowing/researching the local area to better manage those costs.

And I suspect that Dave2's answer fits the theme.  Selling, also a cost depending on your exit strategy, is a cost and factor and the best way to control/manage that is knowing the local environment and with and through any existing network.

On the topic of tangential lines of thought I have another question, but rather then contaminate this thread further I'll find a more appropriate discussion thread to pose it in.  As soon as I find time to dig for it.

Best, NDR

P.S. 

the road is closed by the police and all sorts of heavy equipment is trying to clear a drain to prevent it being washed out.  More on the relevance of that later.

If you are, in fact, in Port Hope, it's the cemetery, isn't it?  They're worried about the buried nuclear waste hitting the cemetery and triggering the zombie apocalypse, right? 

[Dave2]

And I suspect that Dave2's answer fits the theme.  Selling, also a cost depending on your exit strategy, is a cost and factor and the best way to control/manage that is knowing the local environment and with and through any existing network.

P.S.  

the road is closed by the police and all sorts of heavy equipment is trying to clear a drain to prevent it being washed out.  More on the relevance of that later.

NDR:  

I live in the neighbouring township to Port Hope and no I do not have time to watch late night horror movies.

The quote is directly related to the property and one of the pet pieves I have with OTS and Tri Target on the timing in the year of tax sales and how I can make them more money (I will not explain that) if they pay attention.

I will use the analogy of a recent water access only property up by Sharbot Lake a couple of months ago right of the time of freezeup.

It did not redeem and went for $80,000 but there is no way I am going to go to Sharbot Lake at freezeup time to do an onsite.  Do it in February when I can walk on water or in the six months when the water is available without freezing.  I am sorry I do not bet that amount of mine and my partners money without a proper site look.  

For the Port Hope property under discussion I don't know if you realize but OTS Jeff has created a perfect storm for us.  We have 3 feet of snow, an inch of rain and temperatures that are forecast to be below zero Fahrenheit a couple of days from now, in a floodplain that goes through the center of the property.

I defy anyone who does not have local knowledge to really know what you have bought. Probably until may.  

NDR:  Let me use an analogy that any married guy will understand.  Remember the beginning of the marriage, the honeymoon was heaven but shortly thereafter hell arrived.  For a beer (I assume you are local) at the pub at the foot of Toronto road in Port Hope what is it? (Newbies get the easy ones)

G2020:  

You maybe not there personally but wolves travel in packs.  Just so you know what you are getting into there how about double or nothing again.  Simple question "What CENTURY" can my family trace their roots in Port Hope to.  I cant take advantage of a person who is distracted by blondes, bikinnis and beer on the beach  

[NDR]

Well, according to marriage counselor theory (not mine, a friend's) after the honeymoon phase is over the 'Reality Phase' begins where you see what you've really got on your hands after the fog of the thrill of the chase has lifted.  But in that case, the sign of the end of one phase and the beginning of another is usually marked by the arrival of frigid temperatures...

I could also be answering the wrong question, which if that's the case I'll claim Newbie status. 

And while I have that, I'll ask a potentially naive question -- you're suggesting that OTS & Tri-Target control, or at least have some sway, over when the tax sales take place.  Wouldn't it be more at the discretion of the municipalities, and then they just hand the advertising and dispersal of the info-paks to one or the other (or, in some cases, neither, and remain the manager)?

In the event that I owe you a beer (though if I do, I'm going to refer back to our Maritimes discussion and zero-it-out), I'm out in the west end of the GTA, in the Kingdom of Hazel (a city which uses neither OTS or Tri-Target), though I do know the east end quite well and travel there from time to time.  But right now I'm heading south for a week to avoid those back-to-freezing temperatures you mentioned 

[g2020]

You maybe not there personally but wolves travel in packs.  Just so you know what you are getting into there how about double or nothing again.  Simple question "What CENTURY" can my family trace their roots in Port Hope to.  I cant take advantage of a person who is distracted by blondes, bikinnis and beer on the beach 

No bet Dave! I tried a goggle search based upon everything that I know about your Scottish heritage and no luck. No research, no bet - just like with tax sales.🏩

[Dave2]

[No bet Dave! I tried a goggle search based upon everything that I know about your Scottish heritage and no luck. No research, no bet - just like with tax sales.
[/quote)
Its amazing how art imitates life.  First the important stuff, the beers.

a) On the other bet Laras Dad is the winner via PM. The answer is your Mother in Law, but like tax sales risk can be reduced by management.  In my case it was first observed by my Dad you noted when I told him what was going to happen," You have every mans dream, a mother-in-law 5,000 miles away and does not speak a word of your language."

b) G2020 is too cagey but like for tax sales he knows when to fold them especially when he is already comfortably ahead.  The answer is the 1790's via marriage, one of the founding families of the town.  

When we get together I am going to pitch you on something how to possibly
make money on tax sales in a new way.  That will not be for the public domain.  
Both of you contact me via PM to arrange for your winings.  

NDR:  

I don't know for sure but I will assume influence and I am not asking for much, delay them a couple of months.  Based on past experience both of the professional firms are pretty sharp.  IF they feel I have a point I will hear from  them via PM or it will be quietly done.The incidence is relatively rare.  

On the Port Hope property is it bad enough to qualify as a"brownfield" property

I don't think any one  knows but it is an unliscensed scrap yard and I assume a new owner will at least get an order to comply or a something lot more onerous.
Interesting enough if the property does NOT redeem the case could be made that the environmental risks are higher rather then lower.