Do we need to get more active in publicizing the downside of Tax Sales

[Dave2]

I am wondering if we need to get a little more active on pointing out the true risks with tax sales.
I don't mean in alarmist sense just a real outline of the risks and the need for a proper investigation.  Some of the bids lately don't seem to make a lot of sense for tax sales unless you are the neighbour. 

Particularly as you get into rural townships there seems to be an expectation that all property is nicely marked with easily determined boundaries and you can do anything you want with the property.  Maybe one of us has to write an article for OTS on the need for a proper investigation before you bid.  Might even help Jeff get some more title searches.

The successfull ones Jeff will publicize naturally.  There is a need for due diligence. 

comments?

[Frank]

1.  The lady that purchased two lots (with her kids education funds), thinking they would be great to build houses on...only to find out that they were rear lots with no road frontage...they appeared to have road frontage on a drive-by, but the road was actually a private drive-way into a seniors housing development.

2.  The guy who realised after he won that the townhouse that he bid on was actually an end unit that had caught fire, and totally burned out...even a drive-by would have told him that, but he bid sight-unseen.

3.  and finally, the guy that bid on and won a house that was leaning...worse than that tower in Italy....it was leaning so bad that it came to rest on the neighbouring house.   To boot (no pun intended), there were both crown liens against the old owner, and outstanding lawsuits from the neighbouring property.

Do your homework. 

I am wondering if we need to get a little more active on pointing out the true risks with tax sales.
I don't mean in alarmist sense just a real outline of the risks and the need for a proper investigation.  Some of the bids lately don't seem to make a lot of sense for tax sales unless you are the neighbour. 

Particularly as you get into rural townships there seems to be an expectation that all property is nicely marked with easily determined boundaries and you can do anything you want with the property.  Maybe one of us has to write an article for OTS on the need for a proper investigation before you bid.  Might even help Jeff get some more title searches.

The successfull ones Jeff will publicize naturally.  There is a need for due diligence. 

comments?

[Pfm1011]

let us not forget the Quinte west tire dumps that people actually bought

I cant even begin to list the over bids by multiples or unbuildable lots people have bought

[netpred]

Funny, but only the most senior members have anything to say on this topic. The senior members are not the problem. The ones who get burned usually get burned once and then disappear - never to be heard from again. I call this Darwinism. I am not sure that they get burned because of ignorance or because they think that they are smarter than everyone else. But burned they do get. And they sure do disappear. This forum has lots of horror stories. In one case, a condemned house was bought, the "winner" had to tear it down and then was stuck with a lot that was too small to build on. He is still trying to dump it.

There is risk in this game. You can do everything properly and still get burned. The tender price should always refelect this risk. I have been second a few times by a large margin. In those cases, the real loser was the high bidder.

[baller50]

no, you have to do your OWN research and be responsible when playing this game.

This is not for most investors.

[OTS Jeff]

We have written a number of articles on the dangers of tax sales.  Topics have included

• How to protect yourself against tax sales that get cancelled
• Why a cheque from a credit union might be a problem
• Including conditions with a tender
• Properties that have a Crown interest registered against them
• Why an execution search is necessary
• Getting a mortgage to buy a tax sale property
• Getting your deposit back if you change your mind
• Viewing a property before you put in a tender or bid
• Various errors on a tender form will cause the tender to be rejected
• Using aerial photographs
• Vacant possession
• Using a treasurers statutory declaration instead of doing a title search

These articles are all shown on the TIPS ON TAX SALES section of OntarioTaxSales.ca (these articles can only be viewed by OTS members).  There is also information about various dangers to be aware of in the HOW TO BUY TAX SALE PROPERTIES section (you don't have to be a member to look at this section, it's visible to everyone). 

If you have an idea for an article, please let us know.  We welcome any ideas that you may have.  Some of the articles that we've already written were inspired by comments that we saw on taxsaleproperty.org.  Or if you wish to write an article for us, please let us know.  We welcome any ideas that will help people make successful investments in tax sale properties, and avoid making bad investments in these properties.

Best regards,

Jeff Oberman
President
OntarioTaxSales.ca

[Rob]

Let's keep the advertising out of the main forums.  If you have articles that the general public can't view unless they pay for a membership that information would fit better as a post under the links and resources category of the forum.

[netpred]

Let's keep the advertising out of the main forums.  If you have articles that the general public can't view unless they pay for a membership that information would fit better as a post under the links and resources category of the forum.

Agreed. This applies to all posters. I am active here to obtain and share information, not to read advertising.

Thanks Rob.

[OTS Jeff]

Let's keep the advertising out of the main forums.  If you have articles that the general public can't view unless they pay for a membership that information would fit better as a post under the links and resources category of the forum.

Understood.  From now on I won't post anything on the main forum that is, or makes reference to, anything that isn't available to the general public free of charge.  And I do apologize if any of my postings have broken any rules, protocols, or common courtesies.

Best regards,

Jeff Oberman
President
OntarioTaxSales.ca

[Rob]

If the post is related to OntarioTaxsales.ca's upcoming tax sales, free or paid resources or paid, new features and/or additional functionality put it in the links and resources section.  If products or packages are mentioned it counts as advertising.  Once in awhile it's perfectly natural to mention a product and have everyone discuss some aspect of it, but when every post includes a mention of a product, put those posts in the links and resource section.

[Les Pisrael]

 --most of the tax sale properties are dogs. OTS recently showed photos.of a property frontage ,what appeared as a house on it but the aerial showed none and worse the property is 100% conservation regulated and this was a 3rd time repeat sale. How about folks that cough out over $150 bones for title search and most listed are redeemed? Sucks!
OTS should post the tax arrear sales legislation--spousal court pending, Lot's must be advertised as single NOT combined ect.
Jeff Oberman(PresidentOntarioTaxSales) can he explain how much he charges to municipalities to advertise and why not warn public about regulated lands,land locked,lien amounts,repeats,polluted,change of zoning, occupied. What OTS charges is in the thousands of dollars for some basic information and photos and worse no directions. How is it that Taxsalesproperty can function with out mega bucks receiving Jeff old man? And Jeff has enough nerve to come on this site and give link to info but you got to be a  paid member.
 Question: Why do Municipal Government's lawyers handle the registration of title for the owner? Seems that if it is left alone for the purchaser,if it is delayed and not registered,the actual defaulting owner can pay the tax owing before registration and the city can not claim the extra money added to the final bid price.
 I got burned, town clerk was adamant that I provide her with my lawyers name but i give instructions that only he be contacted if only problems arose. Turns out the town's lawyer wanted my lawyer to do the filing and registration. Just few problems--I have to pay the legal costs ect and worse--if any problems with the previous owner starts (SPOUSAL) or belongings missing lawsuits, I'm on the hook for for registration.
 What is the score in who pays for registration, in Halton Hills, Napenee and countless others--it was included in the stated tax arrears owing amount. Towns lawyer says-it's my fault for not enquiring and all tax sales--buyer be aware.
 Jeff OTS should stop milking the system and give information not to cheat the public. OTS gets paid to advertise and therefore needs by law to inform the public of the product  pitfalls he sells 

[bobs]

Why would you get your own lawyer in the purchase of a Tax Sale.  If you do not the township lawyer will do everything.  There fee is already included in the calculation of the cancellation price.  One thing be sure is that you have read and understand the Municipal Act and that the township lawyer does everything he is supposed to do. 

[netpred]

Why would you get your own lawyer in the purchase of a Tax Sale.  If you do not the township lawyer will do everything.  There fee is already included in the calculation of the cancellation price.  One thing be sure is that you have read and understand the Municipal Act and that the township lawyer does everything he is supposed to do. 

There was a discussion here last year on this point. Some municipalities are now requiring that the successful bidder retain thir own lawyer for registration. I agree that the answer is in the Municipal Act, but some municipalities are doing this notwithstanding the provisions of the Act.

[bobs]

I forget the exact quote and I don't feel like looking it up right now but it says basically that the township is responsible for transfering the title and clearing everything off of it exept obviously Crown Interests.  For any legal matter you can represent yourself.  Anybody in this game should be knowlegeable about the Municipal Act and be able to interpret it.  For this reason I believe you should not require a lawyer.

[Dave2]

I forget the exact quote and I don't feel like looking it up right now but it says basically that the township is responsible for transfering the title and clearing everything off of it exept obviously Crown Interests.  For any legal matter you can represent yourself.  Anybody in this game should be knowlegeable about the Municipal Act and be able to interpret it.  For this reason I believe you should not require a lawyer.

Brady:

The reason why we are in this game is for the upside not the downside.  If you do your homework, and are successful on the tender like a foot race I don't want to lose it at the finish line.  

This may come as a shock but I have offered to a township to have my lawyer process the registration and save them the money.  Why am I so willing to spend a few hundred extra dollars?

Because then I get it done fast and don't have to wait for some disinterested lawyer to spend a couple of weeks registering the deed.  For a good property My objective is to have the remaining money in the hands of the treasurer perferrably the next morning after the date bids are opened.    Then I start to push to get it registered.  I have even offered to take the paperwork over to the appropriate lawyer if she will do it while I wait.