Talking to the Owner

[domino]

Well Thanx  , I was hopping to make some friends here and not be shunned so quickly ... I do have avenues to get information ( working for the municipal gov and all ) Hence saying that I'm sure this group may have somemore negativity towards me  "it is what it is"

[domino]

Ultimatly I'm looking for a small piece to call my own that i can build a small cottage on with in 3 hrs away and if I have to invest in a few to flip that is what I will do. If you rather me not be on this site say so

[Prospector]

No one is here tellin gyou to go away, what they are telling you is that there is a better way to do business. You are hearing some harsh words, but its better to hear them, realize there is a better way to go about this and change, than to not hear it and never get your piece of heaven because the deals keep falling apart.

Working for municipal gov't only means you can get info in your muni. My wife works for muni-gov't. I hire consultants all the time. Really if folks on here need info, we don't need to go far to find it. Most of us have a pretty strong network for finding stuff out. The backstory on the properties is what most of us are hunting hard for and I doubt you would have that. Anyone can get a tax role/legal desc./etc. If you actually have the story of why Larry who lives in the middle of BFE let his tract go and stopped paying taxes, I would be impressed. Even more-so if you could find out what was in those barrels dated 1953, whether there's corn in the silo, and if the foundation has a proper footing under the garage. I doubt you would know any of that unless Larry lived in your town. Which means maybe 1 sale per year.

Contacting the owners is bad on a lot of fronts. I assume you are working on your own and you're new to this. So are a lot of other folks out there. You were just educated by the people you cost a pile of cash to. Of course they're unhappy. You tried something, it failed. Move on to something else.

Whatever your next idea is, remember, those RE companies will always be there and will always have the upper hand. Deep pockets do that. Partnerships aren't the way to beat them. Refine your bidding strategy.

Oh and by the way, being 80% right is as good as being dead wrong. There is only one winner at each auction. Almost should not be in your vocabulary. An almost winner is still a loser.

[Dave2]

Ultimatly I'm looking for a small piece to call my own that i can build a small cottage on with in 3 hrs away and if I have to invest in a few to flip that is what I will do. If you rather me not be on this site say so

Domino:  I don't think anyone is saying don't be on the site; but only consider your strategy carefully.  Most of us including myself personally have done a lot of work on a particular piece of property only to see it redeemed at the last moment.   If you want to get a small piece of property you can be really proud of I suggest; "Mum's the word until the deed is registered in your name" Then you can crow.

The problem with contacting the owner is that more often then not it ruins it for everyone else if the property is really worth it.  Personally I think the only owner someone should be allowed to contact is the one 6 feet underground in a pine box.  On the other hand if you have those type of powers I want to retain you as a consultant to tell me what to bid.   

Dave2

[26.2]

Well Thanx  , I was hopping to make some friends here and not be shunned so quickly .

Hey Domino
Hang in there and thanks for posting.  I myself made mistakes when I first got involved with tax sales. [I talked to neighbours, I tried to be discrete but everyone seem to know about everything and that it would be redeemed, which it was much to my chagrin.]  However I make sure I never again get into that situation where what I am doing is compromised.
I strongly suggest you adopt our practices for tax sales research which is more enjoyable and more rewarding.
We are all competing but it is a lot healthier when we are competing on the same field.
Cheers

[Pfm1011]

wow ... jesus and a civil servant..isnt that convenient
 
 I already had the purple robe, the thorns and the railway ties delived to  Golgotha . ( plus lawn chairs, bbq  and a cooler of beer).
....damn shame to waste all the effort  

[baglady]

I am new to this site so forgive me if I am asking dumb questions.  I am a quick learner so shouldn't be a pain in the butt for long.  Regarding talking to the owner...I haven't done this, however, if you read the Robert Kyosoki investment and Robert Allen books regarding real estate investing,  that is exactly what they tell you to do.  So, although I am not defending Domino, I can see why he thought this was a good idea.  I can honestly say that it never occurred to me that by asking questions directly to the owner that I could "queer" the deal but after reading all of the posts, I now understand why that could be a problem.

One poster said not to park in the driveway, don't talk to the neighbours and above all, don't talk to the owner.  What are you supposed to do?  Buy a property blind?  Where do you go to get the information you need? I cannot afford to have a title search done on every tax sale that appeals to me only to be outbid or have the sale canceled the day before sale date. I have lost my pension and most of what I had in the stock market so if I don't do something for my retirement, I will be living in a cardboard box under a bridge somewhere.

Please spare me any sarcasm and just give me the facts.  I am probably old enough to be your grandmother and would appreciate being addressed as you would your grandmother. 

[netpred]

Hi:

I guess you can do what you wish. However, most people here are of the view that you will ruin more sales if you speak to the owner than you will win if you keep quiet.

As for searches and information, it seems odd that you want as much information about a property yet don't want to spend money on a search. The owner nor anyone else will probably be an accurate source for information that a property search will reveal. I know some people don't conduct searches on every property and in most cases the properties are fine. But if there is a problem, i.e, Crown lien, you are absolutely s.o.l. if you have not done a title search and excution search. There is a cost to play this game properly, and your bid should reflect that cost. You won't will all of the time, but when you do you should not be paying anywhere near retail. You must, essentially, build the cost of your searches, as well as bank charges, couriers, gas etc into the amount you bid.

Good luck and hope you are not a former Nortel employee or your pension may be worth even less than you think.

[Prospector]

Baglady,

Why are you buying and what are your goals here? If you are looking to recoup losses from stocks, then you are trying to flip. If you are trying to flip, you don't care what colour the linoleum is or if there are holes in the walls. On your bid assume you are buying a rental property with an absentee landlord. Expect to be replacing wallboard, expect to be doing some repairs to make the property sale-able.

If you are buying vacant land, you should be able to figure out its condition pretty quick by talking ot the town. As much as we hate the folks in some municipalities, some will give a wealth of information. If its a toxic waste dump, they will usually let you know. If they are mum about it, get suspicious. If they don't know anything, they will say that too.

Do a drive by. Take photos. Go to the land registry and ask to see records.

At the end of the day the answer is that you will be going in "mostly blind," compared to buying with an agent. If you are used to this game, you will be going in with enough information to make an investing decision. If you need to know the colour of the carpets, this is the wrong game for you. Expect dog crap and holes in the carpets.

[Pfm1011]

I am new to this site so forgive me if I am asking dumb questions.  I am a quick learner so shouldn't be a pain in the butt for long.  Regarding talking to the owner...I haven't done this, however, if you read the Robert Kyosoki investment and Robert Allen books regarding real estate investing,  

The first thing to keep in mind is that ALL   these investment guru's are scammers. They come and go like the wind and usually go bankrupt  ( tom voo, ed Beckley  etc )and then there is ten more scammers lining up to take their place.  If they made so much off real estate they would be too busy and way too rich to write books

This is  another scammer flogging books  but he does have interesting things to say , But at the end of the day they are all cockroaches

http://www.johntreed.com/Reedgururating.html#

Here is his Robert Allen


My book How to Buy Real Estate for Little or No Money Down photographically reproduces documents from his famous ?Send me to any city? nothing-down deals. The L.A. Times accepted his ?challenge? and made him do them in San Francisco which is near where I live. I went there and got all the documents on each of the seven deals. Some were also done in the county where I live.

On one, which was apparently typical, the documents seem to show that Allen lied to the first-mortgage lender?Bank of America?about whether there was any secondary financing (there was?a seller mortgage) and about his intention to occupy the San Francisco condo as his principal residence (He lived in Provo, UT at the time and never occupied the SF unit). At that time, June, 1981, when home mortgage interest rates were at 18%, Bank of America would only make loans to owner occupants and prohibited all secondary financing. I have their loan policy for the date in question in the book, too. My wife was a loan officer for Bank of America at the time. [Note to bogus gurus: do not brag about deals that you do not want me to look into?especially in the San Francisco area. John T. Reed].

There is one secret to making money in no money down real estate..     You cant.... all no money down deals are scams so don't spend any more money on them

peoples hero's like Donald Trump started with over 20 million 1968 dollars  ( that's not a silver spoon, that's a Diamond encrusted gold and Platinum spoon)   and has gone bankrupt 3 times..The clown wouldn't be making an ass of himself on TV if he didn't need the press for his games to work

Trump book "Trump Never Give Up: How I Turned My Biggest Challenges into Success (2008)"

   "On 17 February 2009 Trump Entertainment Resorts filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, Mr Trump having stated on February 13 that he would resign from the board"


Now this tax sale game can be very dangerous also and is far from a sure thing.. I don't recommend it to anyone who cant afford to lose the coin.  The average bid cost several hundred dollars and you will lose 5 to 10 before you hit . So you can have 2 or 3 thousand tied up in soft costs.

You can reduce costs by not doing title searches until two days prior to the sale ( most redeem by that time but no guarantee) but unfortunately you cant eliminate the costs. To do so is just financial suicide.

Also like any investment..practice.. take a few properties over the next couple months, and do all the research you can for free , make up a bid and record it all.. then watch what happens. It will show you if you would win or lose and help you fine tune your bids prior to actually putting out real money..and don't worry , you will miss a deal or two but there is always more coming down the pipe...

 
"If its a toxic waste dump, they will usually let you know."  Some do and some dont, just last year we had someone on here have to walk from a 5K+ deposit after she had found out the site was toxic after she on the bid but before she made final payment..Lucky for her she felt something wasnt right and asked the members on here for help checking out the property.. an expensive lesson but huge bullet dodged ( more of a 16 inch artillery shell dodged then a bullet ) The town had both the first and second walk ..minor detail the lovely house was actually a former chemical factory and the town was fully aware  of that fact for several years

[baglady]

Thanks to all for the information.  I see I have a lot to learn and I will definitely take the advice that was offered.  I have one question about the soft costs though.  Once I have done my due diligence and have put down my deposit and lose the bid, I get my deposit back don't I?   Wouldn't I just be out of pocket for the title searches and my time and gas?

Also, regarding title searches, is there any way of doing them on line so I don't have to drive all over the country?  One last question, I have noticed on the Gazette that there are tax sales in different locations on the same day and I can't be in two places at once.  Is there a method of dealing with this or must I do the obvious and hire someone to go in my place?

This is a great site.  I hope to become a contributor at some point rather than a recipient.

[bobs]

I'll take a crack at answering this.  Please, if I make a mistake some of you more experienced people correct me.

The deposits will all be given back to the unsuccessful bidders that are present immidiately after the sale.  Those not in attendance, the deposit will be mailed.  The first and second bidder's deposit will be kept for a period of fourteen days.  The first bidder has this time to come up with the balance.  If he does not the deposit is forfieted to the township and the property goes to the second bidder and he then has fourteen days to come up with the balance.  If he does not, his deposit is also forfieted to the township.  If neither person pays the balance there will be declared no successful purchaser.

This all said, I did have an experience where I was niether the 1 or 2 bidder and the township kept all deposits for 30 days.  This is completly against the Municipal Act but what do you do?  If you get a lawyer onto it you have already received your deposit before he can do anything.

Title searches can be done through ontariotaxsales.ca at a very high cost.  I have found that if you have the time and the gas money is less, then you get an interesting drive out of it if you go to the Land Registry office yourself.  That is as long as your are not travelling to Mossenee.

There is no requirement to be at the township office yourself.  Just as long as your bid is present.  You can mail it.

My best advice is go online and print out a copy of the Municipal Act, the part that deals with tax sales.  It is pretty dry and has alot of legal terms but if you do not understand this document word for word you could get yourself into alot of trouble.

Hope this helps.

[Pfm1011]

Title searches can be done through ontariotaxsales.ca at a very high cost.  I have found that if you have the time and the gas money is less, then you get an interesting drive out of it if you go to the Land Registry office yourself. 

This can be the case but you better know what everything means and what will survive and not survive the taxsale. I still use Ontariotaxsales as I find their packages very complete and for 100 to 150 a bargain (factoring time etc)   This includes deeds and surveys if available

Again wait till the 11th hour before you spend the money.  Be warned that no title search will tell you about toxic waste , tire dumps, former grow ops etc etc

[Pfm1011]

Baglady ( and many others)

Tom Karadza & Nick Karadza

Here is your typical get rich quick operation. These clowns operate out of Oakville and here is just some of their sites I have found..They are "so successful " that they actually have to have their websites made in India as they cant afford a programmer on staff or even to hire a Canadian

www.canadianrealestatetraining.com

www.therealestaterenegades.com

www.renegaderealestateblog.com

www.incomeforlifeapplication.com

www.canadianrealestatesecrets.com

www.yourrockstarlife.com/

www.realestatepainfree.com

www.incomeforlifecanada.com

www.iflcanada.com/

http://www.rockstarbrokerage.com/

www.RTOCanada.com

They have get rich quick and no money down books etc. So apparently they are successful..lets look into this .

Karadza Publishing Inc.
1011 Upper Middle Road East, Suite 1467
Oakville, Ontario, L6H 7N7
Toll-free: 416-848-6293 (that's not oakville or Burlington)

Oh wait check the address..

Phoenix Genesis Investments Inc.
Telephone      905.372.2344
Fax                  905.372.3860
Postal address
Suite 1467,1011 Upper Middle Rd. East, Oakville Ontario, Canada, L6H 5 Z9 ( laurel clarry) Not same people

Address is starting to smell like a PO Box at the hasty mart on upper middle

Oh wait Rock star they have a Burlington address also

Karadza Publishing Inc. 3310 South Service Road #300 , Oakville, Ontario, L7N 3M6 (

 postal is Burlington,not oakville, these scammers don't even know their own address)

amazingly this charity has the same address and phone number but different peoples names)

Chain of Action? ( chainofaction.com)
3310 South Service Road East
Suite #300 Burlington Ontario, L7N 3M6
Tel: 416-848-6293 extension 204
Fax: 416-981-7998
  

oh wait theres more

The Coffee Office Address 3310 South Service Road, Suite 300
Burlington, Ontario L7N3M6


and more

Redchair Branding 3310 South Service Rd. Suite 300 Burlington, Ontario L7N 3M6

and more..but wait why is this guy using India if he has a webdesigner..?

Tricorp Technologies 416 238 7928
3310 south service road, suite 300, Burlington

Internet Solutions Developer specializing in transforming business process through automation and ecommerce using internet development applications


But wait :

Rock Star Real Estate Inc.3310 South Service Road, Suite #300
Burlington, Ontario L7N 3M6

but this site says:

Karadza Publishing Inc. 3310 South Service Road #300 , Oakville, Ontario, L7N 3M6 Rock Star Real Estate Inc. (our brokerage) is located at a different address, click here for details.
 ( click to a 404 page not found.)   So they have a real estate brokerage at that address but not at that address  
This is like nailing jello to the wall..I would be guessing that you might want to question these guys plans


Amazingly neither of these guys owns a house in Halton, Peel , Hamilton or Toronto. One owned a 390 K one a block from the PO Box on upper middle ( a cheap house in Oakville and surely not befitting a real estate guru) but looks like the wife has that now.. So real estate gurus with no principle residence..hmmmm even the most clueless real estate investor keeps one in their name for the capital gains exemption


This is two of the great gurus and I somehow suspect , not a pot to P*ss in or window to throw it out of

Oh yeah..search the MLS and they have no properties listed from their brokerage... ( which is located at 3310 south service..oh wait its not there..oh wait it is there..no its not..yes it is..etc etc) so with all their flipping , renting and get rich quick..no listings???

One might tend to be suspicious of the books and claims

[logon9]

You should open your own PI firm PFM:). BTW, if you have PFM for your plate, I've seen your car near my office.

Thanks for the heads up on the GIS thing, I found the Tay one very informative. Couldn't find the Georgina GIS.

A question on Tay: how is it that all the other cottages sitting at 176 could build while we couldn't?
A question on Georgina: Is the abandoned nursing home too good to be true?

Questions are directed at the board in general, not just PFM.

Sorry about hijacking the thread; in my defence, it seems to have already been hijacked.