Greater Napanee

[twinn1]

Not quite correct.  I have won three bids, and none by the margin you refer to.  The property you are talking about was won by only 1k.

Sorry, my memory is not quite that crisp as it was a few years ago.  The point is still valid, there were a lot of bidders for that property, all where pretty much in the same ball park, but only yourself and one other person saw the true value that all of us other bidders missed.  In all honesty, I was bidding lower then I thought it would sell for but I went the max I could at the time, I was expecting to be in the top three for sure.

But PFM is correct, it does'nt matter if I lost the bid by 30K or by 1K, a loss is a loss and that = no profit.

I do understand worldjohns frustration though, if bid after bid of junk land(to most of us) is fetching enermous bids, then it will start to set a precedent to all of the bidders and lurkers on here, kind of hurting the profit potential for regulars.  But thats life and business.  I do notice a lot more bidders on tax sale properties then in the past.  Also, seeing more and more people at openings then the ones I used to attend in the past.   This is just personal opinons, no scientific stats to back up.

Same thing as going to any type of live auction, there are deals to be had but when you get a lot of people looking for a deal, emotion takes over and more often then not people overpay.  There are still deals to be had so it just means the winning a bid becomes more sweeter!

[26.2]

I do notice a lot more bidders on tax sale properties then in the past.  Also, seeing more and more people at openings then the ones I used to attend in the past.

I think this is a great topic that hits the spot.  Winning bids.  The problem is there is a lot more competition with the internet and OTS [featured properties].  You have to be more aggressive and the margins are thinner. It would be interesting to hear from those who have been doing this a while  how things have changed. I have cursed those that beat me on bids and thought they were fools only to see the same property on MLS for three times what they paid. My problem is I have a conservative nature for investments.  I only have myself to blame.  On the bids I have lost[all of them] I would congratulate the winner but maybe call him a d*ck only under my breath to myself
But in actuality it is just jealousy.  
BTW congrats Dave 2.  Maybe a venue for our next meeting

[ErnestBidder]

  Worldjohn, you must first realize that someone wanted "that" property, and it wasn't on MLS. You don't "need" a bargain, you "want" a bargain, but reflect on how you would feel if every bidder that lost to you, on your success(es), immediately ran home and posted an ode to your stupidy on this board: not very nice when you turn it around. You may be  having a bad day, week, or month, or year, for that matter, but it's time to pull back and cool down; I'm not going to give you a negative karma, but you are way out of line.
  I think you are in bad temper because you are making bid after bid without the success you expect, and have just lost one too many, but I think your real problem is that you are not, knowingly or not, putting in the thought and effort it takes to be successful by bidding right. I am by no means an expert, but have bid, and won, twice on properties where I thought would be right for us to build our retirement home (the boss had a different opinion), won a third that was redeemed immediately, lost a fourth up around Apsely/North Kawartha (Frank, I should have introduced myself, but was feeling shy that afternoon, but I did immediately notice your resemblance to that movie star), and lost a fifth because I bid low due to inability to find the property (a local removed the road sign). I put a lot of thought into my bids, and some of it is emotional. If this is a business to you, you need to sit down, calm down, and rethink the whole thing, because I think you're taking out your lack of success on the winners. I bid with the intention of winning, not on getting a bargain, so I may have people looking askance at the bid amount, but I sure don't pay retail. If you find you can't calm down, maybe it's time to change paths.
  The other folks are right, and you are not. Sorry, but that's the way it is. You owe that bidder, and the members and lurkers on this board, an apology.

[ErnestBidder]

      By the way, I'm losing my mind trying to find the notice for Napanee/Greater Napanee: is it under some other name, or did I just completely miss the Gazette notice?

[Driver]

Thank-you Ernestbidder. Very well said.

It is very rude of people to make posts so that they can call people names such as "idiots or morons".  No one knows the reason for someone to make an unusually high bid.  Assessed value has nothing to do with the actual value of a piece of property. It is simply a number assigned by MPAC to assist in the collection of taxes.  The actual value of the property is up to the individual trying to buy. 

Worldjohn, and others, should keep their hurting comments to themselves.  Let's try to keep this fun, and hopefully make the occasional profit if that is your intention.

[Pfm1011]

Ernest :The Corporation of the Town of Greater Napanee  August 1 gazette  

In regards to higher amounts of bidders, The internet has definitely made it easier for more people to learn about the sales so there can be more bidders..But it has also made it easier to research  neighbourhood sales.  aerial photos, mining claims, property and owner history , ZONING and CONSERVATION , and of course its way easier to sell thanks to MLS.

Additionally..its alot easier to avoid a toxic site or we don't need to drive 8 hours now to find its a swamp..( Google is my hero) There is alot more land with no bidders today as we are dodging  more bullets

There is still an amazing amount of deals.  I have seen  a few people overpay by any standard on a few deals ,  but generally the people who I have been beat by are still way below market value and have gotten deals...just not insane lottery wins, Mind you there is still some lottery hits out there too. Seems like one  lottery a year. ( think Dave2 got this years)

The funny thing is that all the good deals go unnoticed ( or unadvertised on here ) So although you lurkers think you are smarter as you sit and rub your hands , you actually arent getting any scoops

In regards to .."land isn't as cheap as it once was.".give me a break,..Saturday matinees aren't a nickel anymore..
7 % a year increase in value is going to bring the tax sales up to...10 years ago the 50K piece was 20 at tax sale. now the same piece is 100K value and 40 at tax sale. The discounts and profits seem the same to me,

Oh wait there is a pile of lurkers...Yup..No more deals in tax sales....move along...nothing to see here..go look at the power of sales..

[Pfm1011]

There is something nasty that has reared its ugly head lately which if it continues will definitely hurt us. It appears Ontario tax sales is now advertising the tax sales with 6 weeks notice. This may be good for them re increased sales of tender packs and title searches, it is definitely bad for us and for the towns as they will now have 6 weeks of stupid phone calls

The reason for short advertising and using OTS  is to reduce the load on the city.

Although I usually endorse the hell out of these guys on here and really believe in their product. Advertising this early will definitely hurt us for the gain of OTS.

I may suggest that the only way to deal with this is to make sure we phone the towns with "has it redeemed yet"     questions a couple times in the weeks prior to the sale. Make sure you make a comment about the six weeks..The hassle will definitely remind the towns why they should keep the advertising period tight to the sale.  ( a shot across the bow of OTS )

Additionally do not buy the title search until a few days before the sale.. Buying it right away forces you to recheck in 6 weeks.  

Like I said I like these guys service and product  however someone wasn't (or was) thinking with this 6 week deal.  Hopefully they read this and see they "are being penny smart and pound stupid" as the six weeks of hassle to the town will totally eliminate the chances of a town advertising early and may not use OTS again due to the hassle

[Jayz]

PFM, I thought you were the disguised owner from OTS . They had you to thank for. Now the have you to hate for. 

[Jayz]

Just finished reading through the entire thread. I think your old folks took it too serious - somebody has lost his bid to an "idiot", and the "idiot" still takes home the win happily. What's the big deal? I actually would appreciate being called "idiot" if the "idiot" were myself who ended up making no money or no use of the taxsale after paying much more than other bidders for the win. So I learn. We've heard so many successful stories. What's the downside of it? Is there really no idiot? Everyone was applauding for Dave2's island win, do you really know Dave2 doesn't even have a boat to take him there so he is worrying every time he wants to go to his own island? And Dave2 might have to sit on it long enough like Robinson Crusoe before somebody comes by to say hello. ;-)

[Pfm1011]

PFM, I thought you were the disguised owner from OTS . They had you to thank for. Now the have you to hate for. 

Some of my postings did look like paid advertisements ...I seriously do think they do a good job and I use them alot but this 6 week thing is insane ....I have a short attention span..I like to have a sale done start to finish in two weeks.  I absolutely love the one week notice ones..no waiting .

[Dave2]

Everyone was applauding for Dave2's island win, do you really know Dave2 doesn't even have a boat to take him there so he is worrying every time he wants to go to his own island? And Dave2 might have to sit on it long enough like Robinson Crusoe before somebody comes by to say hello. ;-)

Jayz: 
My biggest problem right now is not a missing boat but a missing barge.  Up in the far north the septic pump out guys do not have enough business on the water so there is no water borne septic pump out service like there is further south say around Parry Sound.  If I have a serviceable septic system (that remains to be proven) to pump it out I have to load a septic truck onto a barge, haul it out to the island, let it do its duty and then return to shore.  Unfortunately right now they decided to move a hundred year bridge in the local town and all the barges are tied up moving the bridge.  LOL

For those of you that watch the discovery channel Yes I do watch "ICE Road trucking" and I did think think of waiting until February when the bay is frozen.  Problem is the septic bed will also be frozen and I don't think  the septic guys would be keen in cuting out blocks of frozen contents of the tank.   

Maybe I will have to switch to Plan B which is to convince PFM to buy it.  All I have to do is convince him to add a single (0) to his $85,000 planned offer and I might even persuade my wife to sell it. 

[markymark]

Everyone was applauding for Dave2's island win, do you really know Dave2 doesn't even have a boat to take him there so he is worrying every time he wants to go to his own island? And Dave2 might have to sit on it long enough like Robinson Crusoe before somebody comes by to say hello. ;-)

Jayz: 
My biggest problem right now is not a missing boat but a missing barge.  Up in the far north the septic pump out guys do not have enough business on the water so there is no water borne septic pump out service like there is further south say around Parry Sound.  If I have a serviceable septic system (that remains to be proven) to pump it out I have to load a septic truck onto a barge, haul it out to the island, let it do its duty and then return to shore.  Unfortunately right now they decided to move a hundred year bridge in the local town and all the barges are tied up moving the bridge.  LOL

For those of you that watch the discovery channel Yes I do watch "ICE Road trucking" and I did think think of waiting until February when the bay is frozen.  Problem is the septic bed will also be frozen and I don't think  the septic guys would be keen in cuting out blocks of frozen contents of the tank.   

Maybe I will have to switch to Plan B which is to convince PFM to buy it.  All I have to do is convince him to add a single (0) to his $85,000 planned offer and I might even persuade my wife to sell it. 

I have a generator possibly for lend(to power your sewage pump)before ice in.Might need extra hose to get to the barge though.850? Now I know what you mean by not cheap.That's enough for a new kitchen w/marble.Cheers.

[ErnestBidder]

  Pfm, I thank you: I completely missed that Gazette posting!

  Dave2, if you have no septic bed, think incinerating toilet; I'm building a new home this fall/winter, and thinking of having an incinerating toilet manufacturer, formerly of Paris, now in Brantford, make a custom unit with a stainless basement burn tank, servicing a normal low-flow toilet (as my legs are too short to let me get up on the regular fibreglass unit) flushed by treated gray water. The price works to about the same as a septic bed. Of course, if you can sell for the 850, you will be able to afford to helicopter the old poo out for the new owner

  I just noticed I have a -1 karma, and wondered WHAT? until I noticed Pfm has -3; what have we done? :>)) It must be something right. Maybe not, as I also just noticed Pfm has only 5 on the plus side: I think everyone has been like me: reading avidly (lurking until I registered), and forgetting to give a pat on the back where due. I shall be more diligent on this front from now on.

  On tax sale notices, it would be helpful if municipalities would publish the direct URL for their own websites.

  If anyone followed/bid the 1998 Brighton tax sales, the house on a humongous lot at 824 Smith St just sold on MLS, and it was bought for $57,602.13 at the TS. In the second Brighton TS, a billy-goat (more like mountain goat) lot at 13 Lakeview Hts sold for $15599, almost twice the minimum tender. It will be interesting to see what they do with it, but it may have been bought by the neighbour, as their home is now for sale.

[Pfm1011]

We did follow that as Dave2 got taken out by a "800 Lb gorilla"

Anyways what did the unit sell for ? we had this discussion a year ago

As per 57K  seems like a good (not mind blowing great but still good) deal except for the hassle of eviction.  It is definately at the high end of the scale for bids but not at all insane.  I'm guessing you have 110 K  or so worth of house if the interior isn't trashed as its a nice size lot . Could probably fire sell it as is  for 90 to 100 in a very worse case.  Figure 3k to evict and you still almost doubled your money for a few days work.  At 57 there is no way to lose unless Cameco has been moving stuff from Port Hope and hiding it in the basement

[speedfreeksteve]

I'm not sure why the frustration of not winning any. It's better to be the losing bid if the winning bid is too high.

With many of these 15k properties that people chase after, you can find a better property 90% of the time if you just look around (and not just the MLS). Most of these tax sale properties are not gems, and that's why the taxes weren't paid on them.

The last bid that I won was a couple of years ago. I've bid on about a half dozen properties since then with an average value of about 20-30k. Some were redeemed and the others I lost, but the ones that I lost were at a price that the properties would not have been worth it to me. I don't look at this as a game, it's just business.. well.. hobby/business.

One thing that I notice on here though is people chasing after properties with water access only and overvaluing them relative to road access waterfront. I just don't see the point in saving 50k by getting a water access property when the land will end up being a small, small percentage of the money put into the whole thing if you're going to build.

For my just over an acre waterfront cottage property, the land cost (bought in 2000) is just under 10% of the total amount spent on building the cottage (including septic, hydro, deck, dock, etc), and about 5% of the recently appraised value. If it was water access, the value would be much less, but the cost savings (if any, when you add up the extra costs of water access) would have been marginal at best.