Ontario Tax Sale Property Forum
Tax Sale Forum => Introduce Yourself => Topic started by: Antonio on October 28, 2010, 05:29:18 AM
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Hello Everybody,
This is my first time posting on this site.
From what I can see many of you have a vast amount of knowledge in this game. Over the last year or two I have been bidding on and viewing tax sales for but have so far been unsuccessful in securing a property. I was wondering when considering a property, does everyone travel to the municipality to do a title and execution search or just pay someone else to to the necessary leg work? I am asking because it can save a lot of time but will get very expensive when using sites like ontariotaxsales etc...
Any feedback would be appreciated.
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Everyone has their own style of doing things. Everytime I've ever done title searches before the sale I've never won. strangely its only when I dont bother with title searches that I have won (I wouldnt recommend this as I have gotten got with a crown lien)
I take into consideration the cost of gas before deciding whether to go do the search myself or call the registry office and try to get a local searcher to do it for me. either way is always cheaper than ontario tax sales I find.
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I take into consideration the cost of gas before deciding whether to go do the search myself or call the registry office and try to get a local searcher to do it for me. either way is always cheaper than Ontario tax sales I find.
You also have to take your time into account. Many of these road trips can easily be a whole day. $100 for a search is not that expensive when it saves you an entire day. Most good properties redeem so wait until only a few days before the sale before doing the searches.
Do not even consider "taking your chances" and bidding without a search.
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This game is not for the frugal or lazy.. i know of a couple guys that wish they never started playing this game.
Do your homework, then do it again to be sure :)
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Perhaps those who are regulars would save money by purchasing the Teraview software??
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Hello Everybody,
This is my first time posting on this site.
From what I can see many of you have a vast amount of knowledge in this game. Over the last year or two I have been bidding on and viewing tax sales for but have so far been unsuccessful in securing a property. I was wondering when considering a property, does everyone travel to the municipality to do a title and execution search or just pay someone else to to the necessary leg work? I am asking because it can save a lot of time but will get very expensive when using sites like ontariotaxsales etc...
Any feedback would be appreciated.
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Just a question about executions. If you end up with a property that has an execution. How do you pay it off?
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Perhaps those who are regulars would save money by purchasing the Teraview software??
That is 3400 a year and then each title search is around 35 and then 20 or thirty more for attachments , surveys etc. you dont save money with it, you just have lots of info at your disposal
You have to be very serious to fork out for that or have a use for it outside of taxsales.
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$3400!? Teraview site shows price as one time of $595. Perhaps that price is not for the general public..I haven't contacted them.
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that is for agents then there is a cost per inquiry, You will use up several thousand inquirys . IE a piece for sale, you will look at all the local sales for the last year or longer and pull all the adjacent owners info. easy to run several thousand inquirys and a hundred or two titles searches a year. I think I run about 6K a year on the system just related to tax sales
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that is for agents then there is a cost per inquiry, You will use up several thousand inquirys . IE a piece for sale, you will look at all the local sales for the last year or longer and pull all the adjacent owners info. easy to run several thousand inquirys and a hundred or two titles searches a year. I think I run about 6K a year on the system just related to tax sales
Out of curiosity, do you work in real estate or some other industry that justifies the costs? Or at the very least, do you have a business structured in such a way that all (or almost all) of these costs can be written off?
If you were using this for nothing but tax sales you'd have to move quite a bit of property to cover $6K plus a year... I'd imagine.
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How important is it to do a title and execution search the day of the tax sale? In your experience, do many properties accumulate crown liens the day of the sale?
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How important is it to do a title and execution search the day of the tax sale? In your experience, do many properties accumulate crown liens the day of the sale?
This would be rare, but it does happen. Maybe Worldjohn can chime in here.
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How important is it to do a title and execution search the day of the tax sale? In your experience, do many properties accumulate crown liens the day of the sale?
This would be rare, but it does happen. Maybe Worldjohn can chime in here.
Don't know that rare is the correct word...nor have I ever heard of it happening...however, it is possible and therefore the probability (although very remote) cannot be discounted....kinda like the probability of me winning a fifty million Lotto Max jackpot. I'd have better luck on pfm's boat. 8)
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netpred is refering to me. I got caught with a crown lien. I checked the statutory declaration which was clear, but that search was done almost a year before the tax sale and the lien was placed on a few months before the sale. Im not a good person to advise people on title and execution searches as Im a gambler. On cheap properties I dont bother doing my own searches (just use the saturtory declaration) and dont even bother looking at the land sometimes. I just put in a low bid and hope for the best. So far I've been lucky, as I managed to get the crown lien removed on the one property that had one. (but it took over a year). I do not reccommend anyone following this strategy. And, just to be clear, If I am going to put a bid of significant value I do all the proper searches.
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As Netpred said....rare....and I said...possible.
Never rely on the stat dec solely...it is a good starting point, but these are troubled properties,.... and troubled former owners, so anything can happen. Do your homework. 8)
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by the amount of overbids and bids on properties with troubles... alot DO NOT do homework !
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I'm just curious as to what is covered in the statutory declaration?
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I'm just curious as to what is covered in the statutory declaration?
The treasurer is required to notify all parties interested in the property of the registration of a tax arrears certificate. Then he must swear out a declaration that he has done so, and that declaration is open to anyont to inspect. The declaration will give you a list of all parties interested in the property...banks, former wives, and of course the crown. 8)
374. (1) Within 60 days after the registration of a tax arrears certificate, the treasurer shall send a notice of the registration of the certificate to the following persons:
1. The assessed owner of the land.
2. Where the land is registered under the Land Titles Act, every person appearing by the parcel register and by the index of executions for the area in which the land is situate to have an interest in the land on the day the tax arrears certificate was registered, other than a person who has an interest referred to in clause 379 (7.1) (a) or (b).
3. Where the Registry Act applies to the land, every person appearing by the abstract index and by the index of executions for the area in which the land is situate to have an interest in the land on the day the tax arrears certificate was registered, other than a person who has an interest referred to in clause 379 (7.1) (a) or (b). 2001, c. 25, s. 374 (1); 2006, c. 32, Sched. A, s. 153.
Spouse of owner
(2) If a notice is sent under this section to a person appearing by the records of the land registry office to be the owner of the land, a notice shall also be sent to the spouse of that person and, where this subsection is complied with, section 22 of the Family Law Act shall be deemed to have been complied with. 2001, c. 25, s. 374 (2); 2009, c. 33, Sched. 21, s. 6 (33).
Statutory declaration
(3) The treasurer shall, immediately after complying with subsections (1) and (2), make a statutory declaration in the prescribed form stating the names and addresses of the persons to whom notice was sent. 2001, c. 25, s. 374 (3).
Inspection
(4) The treasurer shall permit any person, upon request, to inspect a copy of the statutory declaration made under subsection (3) and shall provide copies of it at the same rate as is charged under section 253. 2001, c. 25, s. 374 (4).
Limitation
(5) A person is not entitled to notice under this section if,
(a) after a reasonable search of the records mentioned in subsection 381 (1), the treasurer is unable to find the person?s address and the treasurer is not otherwise aware of the address; or
(b) the person has expressly waived the right to notice, either before or after the notice should have been sent. 2001, c. 25, s. 374 (5).
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Ah, very good. Thank you for the response.
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Sorry but you have to pay to play
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Is there a website that doesn't charge to charge?....i don't mind paying a fee for documents on a need to know basis.... but this is a little much.
Just do a search on google for "title search ontario"
http://www.google.ca/search?q=title+search+ontario
Check out this place:
http://www.bdc-canada.com/DOCUM/services/land_registry_search.htm
Title searches for around $65-85 on average and return time around 3 hours in the best case scenerio.
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If we start withholding provided information for paying customers only, which we are being given by municipalities to advertise properties with, what exactly are we accomplishing?
I can tell you what you are accomplishing by not restricting access...you're bringing in every bozo of the street to make bids and inflating prices. Which, by the sounds of it is what the municipalities are paying you to do so congratulations....mission accomplished
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We provide service to the public because, not "every bozo" has the resources available to them to even imagine the possible rewards of a good tax sale investment and again the municipality recovering the overdue arrears is our main priority second to that we ensure these properties do sell for an amount greater than the Minimum Tender Amount. That actually makes money available for former owners, mortgagee's etc., how are these bad things Mike?
I agree....Those aren't 'bad things', for former owners or mortgagee's....I'm sure they love you. But as an investment, my(and the majority of ppl here) main goal is to make as much money as possible. I have zero concern to fill the pockets of the former owners because they had zero concern in paying their taxes
Best of luck though